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Hi David,
Thanks for the prompt reply - it is much appreciated.
However, the information you supplied to me, that the "level I, II and
III qualifications are given by ASNT" does not tie up with the
Recommended Practice SNT-TC-1A (2001 as well as earlier versions of the
document). In the Recommended Practice SNT-TC-1A (2001) under point 4.0
- Levels of qualification - in point 4.3 the following basic levels of
qualification are defined:
4.3.1 NDT Level I
4.3.2 NDT Level II
4.3.3 NDT Level III
These qualifications are given by the Certifying Authority (point 2.1.2
in Recommended Practice SNT-TC-1A (2001)) in line with the written
practice of the employer. It is quite clear that ASNT itself does not
play any role in this process. ASNT does offer examinations under the
new ACCP-scheme or for level III personnel the ASNT Level III
certification scheme as governed by the ANSI Standard CP 189. This CP
189 only defines the ASNT NDT Level III - and not ASNT Level I, II or
III.
>From this deliberation I want to put it to you that the information on
your homepage, calling for ASNT Level I and II personnel, is misleading
and not in line with any Recommended Practice, such as Recommended
Practice SNT-TC-1A (2001) or Personnel Certification Standards such as
ANSI CP 189, ISO 9712 or EN 473 amongst others. I would like to appeal
to you that, where companies want to place advertisements on your site
calling for ASNT Level I and II personnel, you request them to rectify
the advertisement in line with the applicable Recommended Practice, such
as Recommended Practice SNT-TC-1A (2001) or Personnel Certification
Standard as applicable.
Should any company have a problem with this you can refer them to ACCP
Manager at the ASNT head office. We have been dealing with ASNT/ACCP on
this issue for a number of years, as this practice of calling for ASNT
Level I and II personnel confuses the issue in our country (South
Africa). (By the way - only recently your internet homepage was called
on and quoted as a defense for this dubious practice- hence my contact
with you.) The answers we received from ACCP is copied into this e-mail,
as this may clarify the issue for you some more. Mr Wasberg, the ACCP
manager at the time, wrote the following reply to our complaint/query:
"
Manfred,
I have read all of the correspondence on this particular issue that
Hugh
Neeson has raised. While there are many statements of innuendo and
heresay, the only evidence I can consider is that of the three
certificates that I have in front of me. Two of the three
certificates
appear to be certifications as recommended by SNT-TC-1A and they
clearly
state certification to SNT-TC-1A. The third certificate clearly
indicates that it is for successful completion of a School Course (or
training).
All three certificates contain errors in the form of the use of "ASNT
Level II", and indeed "ASNT Level 3" in two of the three certificates.
There is NO SUCH title as "ASNT Level II", nor is there such a title
as
"ASNT Level 3". However, many people, specifications, and purchase
orders around the world refer to certifications as recommended by
SNT-TC-1A as ASNT certifications and as such leave the impression upon
me that too many people lack an attention to detail. The following
are
but examples of the titles or statements that are MOST CORRECT when
referring to this issue of certification:
ASNT NDT Level III: An individual who, having passed ASNT administered
Basic and Method(s) examinations, holds a current, valid ASNT NDT
Level
III certificate in at least one method. (Understand that there is no
such thing as an ASNT Level III, only an ASNT NDT Level III when the
exams are administered by ASNT. If an employer administers the exams
then there could be an NDT Level III as recommended by SNT-TC-1A or an
NDT Level III in accordance with CP-189)
ACCP Professional Level III: An individual who, having passed ASNT
administered Basic, Method(s), Procedure Preparation(s) and General
Hands-on Practical(s) examinations, and holds a current, valid ACCP
Professional Level III certificate in at least one method.
ACCP Level II: An individual who, having passed ASNT administered
General(s) and General Hands-on Practical(s) examinations, and holds a
current, valid ACCP Level II certificate in at least one method.
Once again if an employer based Level II certification is being
indicated then it should be appropriately referenced such as NDT Level
II as recommended by SNT-TC-1A, or an NDT Level II in accordance with
CP-189, or whatever other employer based program referenced document
is
appropriate. There is no such title as an ASNT Level II.
In the end you and Hugh Neeson must realize, whether you like it or
not,
that the validity and acceptance of an employer based NDT
certification
is determined ONLY by the employer's written practice and the customer
who accepts it. With respect to SNT-TC-1A and the perceived less than
responsible practices by local NDT companies impacting upon a
customer's
acceptance of SNT-TC-1A, ASNT staff are not in a position to give
specific opinions or advice. However, a general understanding of
SNT-TC-1A and also CP-189 and how these two documents differ in their
approaches to NDT qualification and certification is necessary for you
or others with an interest in this issue.
"Recommended Practice No. SNT-TC-1A" and "ASNT Standard for
Qualification and Certification of Nondestructive Testing Personnel
(ANSI/ASNT CP-189)" are documents in which qualification and
certification of NDT personnel is addressed. SNT-TC-1A provides
guidelines which should be modified by the employer in a Written
Practice to meet that employer's particular needs. ASNT has no
authority
or control over those employers adapting SNT-TC-1A in a way that is
perceived as less than acceptable or responsible. ANSI/ASNT
CP-189-1991
is a recognized standard that approaches qualification and
certification
in a more rigorous, less flexible manner and to that extent does not
support modification in the way that SNT-TC-1A does.
The ASNT Central Certification Program is NOT an employer based
qualification and certification program, but rather an independent
third
party assessment of qualifications, including examination, by ASNT
through Authorized Examination Centers (AECs). These AECs have
undergone comprehensive on-site assessment by an ASNT Assessor holding
ASNT NDT Level III, ASQ-CQA, and RAB/IRCA Auditor Certifications.
After
reviewing the three certificates that I have in front of me, I see no
evidence that any direct or indirect interpretation can be made
relating
them to ACCP.
I hope this response is satisfactory to you and Hugh Neeson. In the
event you are not satisfied with my response, you and Hugh Neeson may
proceed with the following actions should you consider this an ethics
issue:
In order to submit a complaint regarding Level III ethics violations,
please submit your complaint in writing to the following:
CMC Level III Ethics Subcommittee Chairman
C/O ASNT Technical Services Manager
1711 Arlingate Lane
Columbus, OH 43228-0518
Your complaint should contain at least the following details:
- Your name and place of residence.
- Name and place of residence of the individual you are lodging the
complaint against.
- A clear and concise description of the issues of fact involved and
allegations raised, including any available evidence.
- The possible outcome/conclusion you seek relative to the complaint.
Sincerely,
Randy Wasberg
ACCP Manager"
Our reply to this e-mail was as follows:
"Randy,
Thank you very much for the detailed reply on the queries raised
by Hugh Neeson and myself. I forwarded the reply to the current
Chairman of the Southern African ASNT Chapter, Mr Pat Garland,
for his attention and action.
>From your reply I get the impression that you are of the opinion, that
we at Eskom do not "like" the SNT-TC-1A Recommended Practice. I
can assure you that this is not the case, as we in Eskom actually
run the NDT set-up at our Nuclear Power Station strictly in accordance
with the recommendations contained in SNT-TC-1A and are also
promoting the use of the document for the NDT services offered to our
fossil power plant.
A written practice is required from every NDT service company
endeavouring to perform NDT work on this plant. However,
we place additional requirements on the NDT certification process, in
that we require the companies to include independent examinations,
taken with certification schemes nominally in line with ISO 9712, in
the
written practice.
On the other hand we allow for the use of personnel certified in
a limited scope of work at level I, on condition that the companies
embark on a training programme for these employees, to
"redress the imbalances of the past".
One major addition to the recommendations contained in SNT-TC-1A,
which we require from NDT service companies to be included in their
written practices, is the provision for "Authorisation" of NDT
personnel
to perform NDT on behalf of the company, as required by ISO 9712
and EN 473.
As a major end user of NDT we approve the written practices of NDT
service companies, to ensure that they conform to our requirements.
Through these measures the level of professionalism in NDT is
enhanced and are we of the opinion that the companies performing
work on our plant are doing so in accordance with the letter and spirit
of the codes and standards governing the use of NDT.
However, what we are objecting to, is misrepresentation and the
continual dissemination of unsubstantiated "half-truths". In order to
rectify this state of affairs we need to "pay attention to detail", as
you
put it in your reply. (In fact, from your reply it is quite evident
that we
ourselves were misquoting certification in our correspondence, which
will be rectified in future.) In order to obtain clarity we will have
to
communicate with yourselves, so that an unbiased opinion can be
obtained on issues of concern.
Thank you for your time and input to the queries. "
To this we received the following reply:
"Manfred,
You demonstrate a true understanding of the inherent dichotomy of
SNT-TC-1A . Your control of employer based PQC through independent
examination mirrors one of the ways that I hope ACCP will be
implemented
in the future.
Randy"
It is in this light that I would like you to understand my concerns
with your internet site.
Please do not see it as an attack, but as constructive interest and a
contribution to professional NDT.
Regards.
M S Johannes
Chief Consultant
(Mechanised NDT)
Tel : (011) 629 5095
Fax: (011) 629 5777
Cell: 083 288 8419
.....................................................................................................
The perusal, use, dissemination, copying or storing of this message or
it's attachments and the opening of attachments is subject to Eskom
Enterprises (Pty) Ltd standard email disclaimer available at internet
address: www.tsi-sa.com/disclaimer.htm or on request from the sender.
>>> David Bongiovanni 08/07/02 05:45PM >>>
level I, II, III qualifications are given by ASNT. You can find more
info at http://www.asnt.org.
-dave
Manfred Johannes wrote:
>
> I follow the info on your webpage with great interest. It is an
> excellent site featuring interesting information. Keep it up.
>
> I was however supprised to find advertised on your site
opportunities
> for ASNT Level I or II and ASNT lvel II RT. Where can one obtain
these
> qualifications? I am conversant with all thequalification systems
and
> have not yet encountered this "ASNT Level I and II"-qualification?
> certification? or whatever this may be.
>
> I would apprefciate an answer in this regrad.
>
> M S Johannes
> Chief Consultant
> (Mechanised NDT)
>
> Tel : (011) 629 5095
> Fax: (011) 629 5777
> Cell: 083 288 8419
>
>
.....................................................................................................
>
> The perusal, use, dissemination, copying or storing of this message
or
> it's attachments and the opening of attachments is subject to Eskom
> Enterprises (Pty) Ltd standard email disclaimer available at
internet
> address: www.tsi-sa.com/disclaimer.htm or on request from the
sender.
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